the news and those photos

[crazy a]

Since we're posting opinions, here's one from me.

I've looked at some of the photos. I've looked at those smiling, laughing bastards standing around a burned body that looks like nothing more than a mound of ash in human shape.

Personally, I'd like to line them all up and give them a one-way bullet ride to the Promised Land. And oh yes, I'm well aware that it's "some" Iraqis and not "all."

I think America should go ahead and pull out and let them have their damn country to do with as they please. Which most likely means they'd get another dictator who's just as bad or worse. Which would serve them right.

And as for trying to understand why this is the way it is (and I don't intend this as a dig at Jadian or Asis or anyone), what good would it really do? You can read all the history books you want, dig through all the newspapers, write papers and articles trying to figure it out and displaying your distaste for it and offering solutions, but will it REALLY do any good in the end? War is bad, yes. Innocent casualties in war is bad, yes. Kids getting injured or killed in war is bad, yes. But what are you gonna do that the governments can't to get war stopped, to get radical religious/political factions from killing anybody not on their page? To me, understanding right now doesn't count for squat.

[AsIs]

Truth is, that what any of us does in this topic won't amount to changing anything.

What needs to happen is for our government to learn from thier mistakes and change the WAY they do things. So unless any of us run for office and win, our understanding won't help so much.

But where we are involved is when our government parades all the EVIL without showing the WHY to raise the ire of it's citizens that empowers them a free ticket to carpet bomb a country. That is what 911 did for the Bush Administration. Down in the polls, air gore (not the former vice president) on the networks and look Rice/Clarke are no longer a issue. Look, Bush is a leader against Terrorism again! Damn that liberal press!

As a country we are too easily manipulated. I find that sad.

[Jadian]

The value of understanding to me is clear: If I understand that the Iraqi people are reacting to a history of violance and foriegn invasion and domestic dictatorship and sanctions, I might not be inclined to attribute this act to the general bloodthirsty nature of brown people. Not that I'm saying anyone here is doing that - I'm talking about the media as an educator of what the world is. And I agree it will never be unbiased. But I would rather read both sides, all sides, and make my own judgment, than give up.

Who knows? One day I might be Prime Minister, or a foriegn ambassador, or an international human rights lawyer, in a position to change things. There's the value in understanding.

And as Asis put it: "But where we are involved is when our government parades all the EVIL without showing the WHY to raise the ire of it's citizens that empowers them a free ticket to carpet bomb a country." I agree. I've always believed that to be the harm.

[erisesoteric]

Cats

If you're going to blow off a request for courtesy on this board by calling it "liberal dogma," I don't know WHAT I can possibly say to you to make you understand what I'm saying.

All I can say is that I perceive that you post as though you believe that everybody secretly believes the way that you do... they just can't bring themselves to admit it.

I don't know if you respect me or not, and in the end, it matters very little. What matters to me is that you are COURTEOUS, not just to me, but to everyone on this board.

It is possible to disagree with someone without belittling them. Please observe Crazy A's post.

I can't do a DAMNED thing about what's going on in Iraq. Or anywhere else on this planet. But I'll be goddamned and buried before I'll stand for people using world events as a way to backhand each other on this board.

For gods' sakes, haven't we had enough here? How many more people do we have to drive away before we start acting like civil people here?

[Ski]

Amen.

[JaceSan]

Originally posted by Jadian:
I would rather read both sides, all sides, and make my own judgment, than give up.

<font size="2" face="Comic sans ms, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here's another side of the Iraqi story. I can't vouch for the authenticity, but it's still an interesting perspective.

Riverbend

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 03, 2004 01:23 PM: Message edited by: JaceSan ]</font>

[Firebird98]

seems to be well informed, I'd say it might be real, but there are some items in there that were different from what I expeierienced. Like her saying she went to see Abu Hassen. Abu is not a name there, it means "father of" and is never used as a way of identifying someone.

Then again, that might be his name, but when I was there, I never met anyone who's same was Abu. And I met alot of people.

Some of the stories in there, though, are what made me call bullshit. Like her saying we beat Iraqi women. I never once heard a single report of soldiers being charged with assaulting or beathing Iraqi women in detention. We did detain women, but to date, I never heard of any instances of women being beaten.

[Jadian]

Is it possible that beatings don't get reported? The blog seems to make it pretty clear that there are so many tragic stories untold because of fear.

[Firebird98]

it IS possible, yes. But I, for one, would be outraged if soldiers came into my house and beat the piss outta my wife and daughters.

Yet, the anti thesis to this would be that Iraqi women are regarded as lower class. I had one man explain to me that the male child is raised as the favorite, while the daughter is raised only to get married and out of the house. Iraqi women get beaten fairy regularly and with a sickening amount of force, so it is indeed possible that they have become used to it.